From Arizona to Harvard: A Law Student’s Francophone Journey - In Conversation with Micah McCreary

In this episode of the North American Francophone Podcast, we dive into the journey of Micah McCreary, a third-year Harvard Law student with roots in Arizona and a passion for the French language. From his unexpected start in French studies at Arizona State University to his role as co-president of Harvard Law’s Francophone Society, Micah shares his experiences navigating multiple cultures, languages, and academic paths. Together, we explore the complexities of Francophone identity beyond France, the challenges of sustaining language programs in the U.S., and the unique perspectives that language brings to the field of law. Join us as we discuss what it means to be a Francophone in North America and why embracing this identity can open doors far beyond borders.

Transcript

Welcome to another episode of the North American Francophone podcast, I'm your host Claire-Marie Brisson, and today I'm with a Harvard Law student and also a student of mine in my French 64 course discovering French in North America, Micah, if you'd like to present yourself to our listeners, I'd be delighted. I’m Micah McCreary and. I am currently a third year law student at Harvard law School. I am originally from Phoenix, Arizona. I attended Arizona State University for undergrad, where I majored in a lot of things. but um namely, uh English literature, French, political science, and I had a minor in Chinese. So I have a I've a fairly strong background in in linguistics in language, um, and now I've brought that to law school to some extent. And what do we think about law school and we think about somebody who's come all the way from Arizona to Massachusetts, we often ask ourselves, well, first of all, what does it mean for you to be simultaneously enrolled at HLS, and then also in a French class. You know, you're you've made the conscious choice to come and to get an advanced level French class and have dedicated yourself obviously to multiple languages. What does that look like for, first of all, for you personally, but also as a law student? Well, it wasn't. So I'll start by saying it wasn't easy to do. um, mostly because the class schedule at the law school conflicts substantially with the class schedule at the undergrad, um, so finding a finding a time block that worked was difficult to start with. Um but that being said I mean, my primary motivation for Tina class. I mean, my last year, I got a little bit more leeway in terms of what classes I can take. and one thing that I'm really afraid of is losing the level of French that I have. The same goes for Chinese, but but in this in this context, French was the French is the language I speak, the best other than English and so I really wanted to find some way to continue studying. So I started looking into what French classes were out there and I was told about Professor Von. So um ultimately I decided to take this. it did somehow fit in my schedule. um and so um for me, it's it's a really cool opportunity to especially in the context of the class that we're that I am in, which which discusses Francophone, um culture traditions, language all throughout North America to realize the extent to which I have been missing a portion of what being in Frankophon person means, and the extent which that is not limited just to France and African countries that were colonized by France, but that really extends to all around the world. So it's interesting too. I find that the term Francophone or Francophon in English, you know, when I say that people kind of look at me a little funny and then they say, well, I know a phone, right? That means language and then they they start to decipher the meaning of the Francophony. And I guess for you, when you first started thinking about French studies, were you thinking about them mainly as being based in France and maybe as you as you just said, in Africa itself? But for you, what was that Francophone when you first started learning French? Did it exist? How did you start to discover the Francophone? Yeah, so Francophone meant to me people who spoke French as a natively language, which I think I've expanded that definition a little bit. And and for me, I mean, I studied French in Arizona from professors who were primarily either European or Arizona and who learned French. And so a lot of them, they are only they're only or at least they're primary interaction with French speaking portion of the world population was France, the matr, and you know, like Senegal and Gabon and and and countries like that, where which are incredibly important Francoon places, but we sort of glossed over a lot of what America and Americas have to offer. That being said, I mean, Canada is something that a lot of people are are gonna think about as a French speaking place, so Quebec, we had a studyioroad program actually at Arizona State University that would take people to Quebec. But because I sort of got the impression that people looked better on French that was from France and also because I wanted to to travel outside of the United States, I focused primarily on France and on things across across the pond, if you will. So, yeah. It's interesting because when I think about your journey here to Massachusetts, I think about not only the distance, the mileage between Arizona and here, but also that mileage from Arizona to say France or to other areas of the Francoon. And for you growing up in a place that a lot of people know as a border state, a place where a lot of people know that, you know, Spanish is is spoken quite often, uh more in in some communities than even English is. Why French, you know, if you if you're thinking about growing up in in Arizona, it almost might seem logical that you you'd learn Spanish. Yeah, that's that's a complicated answer. So, when I'm speaking to people, usually in French about Arizona and its and its culture that is Francophhone, I like to say that. There's almost no one there that speaks French. And so it was it was a weird decision and and I'll admit that. So when I when I first got to Arizona State University, which is my own my mater, um I was in a pretty big rush to go to law school. and wanted to finish my degree as quickly as possible. I chose an English degree because I love to read, and found out to my chagrin that I was required to take a language. I was very upset about that. I was like 19 at the time and I did not want to do anything that was a requirement at all. and so I had been like this is a really silly reason, but I had been watching this show calledhite collar at the time and there's this character in white collar who uh at least according to the show speaks flu and French, though when he speaks French in the show he does not speak flu French. who speaks French and I was kind of enamored by this character and I I wanted to emulate him and decided that since everyone in and, you know, everyone in Arizona was geared up to learn Spanish, I wanted to be different and unique, and so I chose French, primarily as well because there was an intensive option so that I could learn it really quickly learn it. So that I could finish the requirement really quickly in in one year instead of two years and just get on with my life. that didn't go as planned. I really quickly fell in love with French, um, despite my desire to, you know, keep myself sort of distant from it. I found out that I have a language aptitude and started learning French really quickly. almost passively until I started to realize just how much, and then I was like I was walking back to my car from classes, speaking out loud and people had to think I was crazy, but I was so excited speaking out loud to myself in French, trying to practice all the things that we've learned. So it went from being a very reluctant experience to a very enthusiastic one, almost overnight. And that enthusiasm, I'm I'm sure is somebody who enjoys communicating and also defending other people's rightses as you think about becoming a lawyer, uh, the the notion of translating your thoughts into another language or translating and transforming your talents and bringing them into another language can be so exciting. And from your first classes to where you are now, how did you continue that thread or at least continue that excitement? Well, I don't know, I think I think that one of the reasons that I learned French as quickly and to the extent that I did had to do with the effortlessness through which I found excitement in it. So I initially started out with French 110 and 210, which are the intensive French options that take you through normally the first two years of French language. um I did those in one year, um and decided by the end of those that I was having so much fun learning a new language, um I was I would say I was conversationally fluent so I could I could circumlocute and and talk around anything that I didn't understand. I think I tested B2 by the end of that year or something like that. um right on the border of C1. So I learned it really quickly. And um that was a really rewarding feeling, and that kept me wanting to go and wanting to keep going. And so I added French as a minor, plugged into the community at Ays an estate that was studying language. I actually found it a club. I wrote my personal statement for law school about this, but I found a club on ASU's campus called the silk cultural cultural attaches um we we made this weekly conversation uh opportunity called silk cafe, silk stands for school of international letters and cultures at ASU, where we basically pulled together all of the students who were studying languages who were enthusiastic about it, gave them coffee and snacks and said talk to each other, and it grew quickly into the largest club in the college at Gibber arts and sizes, which is the largest college of Arizona State. And so by merit of those those things altogether, I think that I I took on a lot of identity as being the person who, you know represented French study at ASU and that expanded into Chinese as well when I when I wanted to add a third language into the mix. But um, it was it was somewhat effortless to maintain the level of interest, um, and then I ended up studying abroad in Lyons as well, um, between my junior and senior years, I think. No. sophomore on junior year of of college, I studied abroad in Lyons and um fell in love with the city there too, and and got to be pretty comfortable in French from that. We actually have a connection. I used to live just outside of Ly and it's a place that, you know, when you go there, you can just feel the history. You see that history and you also see the transformation of the city from Lukunum when it in its Latin name to Lyon, right? So even those transformative experiences were French wasn't necessarily at the center at the start, and then seeing that progression to the language, so I think that in a certain sense we're always playing with language. We're always playing with identity as we live our lives and particularly for those people who go from one city to another, move from one region to another, or study in one region and then go to another, it's's a story that can really speak to a lot of people. And I'm wondering, you know, after starting that club, congratulations for your success with that, I think you're now the president of Harvard Laws, Francophone Society now. What does that look like bringing your enthusiasm from Arizona, bringing all of these things from Arizona and then coming here to Harvard Law School, where you're probably busier than anybody. And and yet you're still wanting to keep that connection with the Francophone, with the French language. Tell me a little bit about what that looks like on the side of the students who are participating with the Francophone Club and maybe some of the Francophones of Harvard Law. Yeah, so um the Francophones society at Harvard Law School. First of all, I amm the co-president. I have a I have another person who is also president with me. Um, but we are really a club that is meant to celebrate any culture that speaks French or has any connection to the language, um or the culture of um people who speak French as a language. Um initially, when I joined the club at the beginning of last year, um the president was uh Vietnamese and she was very, very passionate about spreading awareness of the fact that no, it is not just France. It is not just the mre it is not just these like stereotypical places. Belgium, you know, Switzerland, um that speak French, but rather there's there's places all around the world to Vietnam being one of them where French is an incredibly important thing. And so what she did, um is she expanded, I think, our enrollment or not enrollment, but like our membership out to encompass basically all of these so what, in in any law school, there's a subsection of students who are called LLM's. They're generally students from other countries who come to the United States to study for one year so that they can be eligible to take the bar, the bar exam in the United States. And Harvard makes a point to admit usually one or two from each country. um or at least one or two from most well represented countries. um and they come like LLM's come from all around the all around the world, um and what, um Yanbar, president last year did is really invite them into the fold and and have them take a leading role in the organization. And so my job now has been to sort of continue that legacy and try to expand so that like there there's a contingent of students at Harvard who speak some French, a lot of French, a little French, or at least interested in French, and they're JD students who are American, who grew up in America. But that is in my opinion, that is sort of useless when you have if if if your community is just those people, it's it's almost useless when you have this like ready made population of native French speakers who are there to supplement any sort of cultural exchange. And so my primary focus, I think, in the Francophone society is to bring those two groups together. That's what we were doing in in the organization that I ran at ASSU2 is we were like pairing people who enjoy French but don't have it as a native language of people who enjoy French and do have it as a native language so that that just expands, I think, like the more you expand relationships, the more you expand, you know, cultural exchanges, understanding, the more people are going to be excited about continuing to learn languages. I think a lot of people will be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna use Duolingo to learn language. And then as soon as it gets sort of difficult, they fall off and and they don't feel that motivation anymore. And so sort of trying to combat that a little bit. And it's also, I think what you're doing and what is so important is you as you're mentioning all of this is the recentering of a language as being something that's not a foreign language, right? But that's a language that is a global language that is able to be spoken in almost any context, really, if you think about it, and reinscribing that here in the United States, which doesn't have an official language, right, and which has so many different languages that are represented here in the United States. So another thing that I'm really interested in in talking about with you just thinking about your own experiences, coming from Arizona, coming here to Massachusetts, being a Francophone or at least someone who is part of the Francopon, um there's always this debate and question within the French speaking circles of who can actually use the term fr Francophone? I would say anybody who's able to speak French could call themselves a Francophone, right? I don't like to to build these unnecessary borders and say that, you know, you're not a Franco, you are, you're in my class, you're speaking French all day. in in French speaking countries, we often use the term fancoil, right? Somebody who likes the Francophon, but is somebody who is not a Francophhone of origin. But that that to me seems like we're closing the door and saying, well, no, you really don't speak French. I disagree. Even if you're at an A two or B one level, which is an intermediate uh, you know, going to the intermediate level, um I do think that you should be, you know, embraced by the Francophoni. And so, but the problem is now that I've noticed in the academy just whether I'm here at Harvard or whether I think back to the time when I was a graduate student at the University of Virginia and Charles Sil Virginia, when I first started this podcast, actually, or if I think about my time in Michigan in in Detroit, but also with the University of Michigan, I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about what language programs can do for students. And sadly, we're starting to see that language programs have become increasingly put into consideration for budgetary concerns at universities at the undergraduate level where courses are no longer offered at some institutions and where we now see that, you know, courses in science, technology, engineering and math, which are, of course, extremely important, are being prioritized for the budgets at universities, whereas French and other languages, including Spanish, uh including Arabic, including critical languages, languages that really do need to be studied, uh and and used more, uh, you know, these language programs are sadly put on the chopping block quite often by the administrators, who then allocate those resources for other things like buildings, right, rather than even another program, stadiums. And so my question for you is particularly as somebody who is surrounded by the idea of justice and the idea of what is really just or what is equitable when we think about language and language learning, how do we provide that support and how do we really bring a story like yours or bring stories like so many other stories for those who speak a language other than English in the United States or learning a language other than English in the United States. How do we really bring that to a larger discussion? It seems to me like it's really silo within the French speaking community as an example of a French language, and we could insert any other language that's currently being studied and really replace it for this question. I' use my experience at Arizona State as an example here. I think that everything is about incentives in this circumstance. So when I was when I was at Arizona State and I first started learning French, the language department, the school of international letters and cultures, was somewhat well funded. There were intensive programs, and usually that's it that's a good gauge of whether um a school is is really putting a lot of resources toward language acquisition is is intensive programs take more resources because you're really fostering students's ability to learn language. I was a member of intensive French courses and then I went on to TA and teach in those French courses, those intensive French courses as well as a as like a slightly higher level undergraduate. And when I joined, there was one in German, um French, Spanish and Italian. I think on Italian. By the time I finished undergrad, if those programs existed outside of French, French was always the most popular, if those programs existed, they were very sparsely attended and not spoken about by the university. In the course of my time at ASSU, I became friends with I would say I became friends with several professors, um, that I consider very dear to me to this day. Um two of whom were tenured, and that remains the total of tenured French professors at Arizona State University, uh despite the fact that the workload has significantly increased, and I've spoken to professors at Arizona State who have complained about responsibilities being foed upon them that they do not have the bandwits to take on because the university is so shy about spending any more money to give another professor tenure or tenure or even realistically when they need it, many more professors to have tenure in these languages, and all that does is create overworked and overburdened professors whose sole job it is or should be to encourage students who are in my exact position to pursue the languages that they are excited about and and now starting to learn. I think that in so doing and in allocating resources elsewhere, like I understand that universities need to be run like businesses and a lot of the time stem or, you know, what have you is what's gonna bring in more donors and bring in more money. But those things are important, sure, but I do not think that they should take priority over a culture and language when those things are things that are so vital to so many people who a, like if you're like me, that's something that has turned I don't think I would have gotten into Harvard law school if I didn't speak to other languages and have the background that I have, not because Harvard is looking for that, but but because that made me unique and that made me an interesting person for them to admit. I think that by fostering language in the school, those are things that complement not detract from the other programs that schools are interested in advancing, like SEM and I think that by by taking the focus away from that, you take away the well rounded nature of students who are graduating from your school and and and it's just, honestly in my in my opinion, it's it's a shame when that happens. So I think that the the number one recourse here is that if money needs to be taken from somewhere, it needs to the last priority should be langu departments. You cannot saddle two tenured professors with all of the work of a large contingent of the university that is at least interested in learning some language, not every everyone is going to go and take on a French major. that doesn't mean that you shouldn't support French language learning. Not everyone is going to have a Spanish major. still teach people Spanish, especially in a place like Arizona. It's vital that some people are able to like the people are able to learn and understand and speak in Spanish, or else you start ignoring and suppressing culture which we've already done in Arizona and has happened with French in in other places around the United States and North America. Well, what's really surprising, you know, if we think about Harvard, you know, I didn't go to Harvard. I teach here, but I didn't go to Harvard. But when we look at the history of Harvard's evolution of what they prioritized, in fact, at one point, they required people who were asking to be admitted to the university to answer questions in Latin. I mean, at a certain point, there was the idea of the classical knowledge of Latin. It's still used in commencement to this day here at Harvard. And the diplomats are also written in Latin at its basis, the whole idea of study was in another language, was in Latin, which, of course, we see the connections to other Latin stemming languages like Spanish or French, etc. and what's most surprising to me to today is that the connection is not being made between the way that we think differently in another language or the way that we are having to re articulate our thoughts, rethink about how we even narrate or how we exchange or how we communicate in many ways, this is at its heart the the main basis of diplomacy. It's the main basis of democracy having multiple voices, having the voices of the people, but also thinking about who am I speaking to? How am I speaking to them in what capacity am I able to transform and translate my thoughts so that they can cross borders and cross languages? we've got this push in the United States that's been going on over the last 12 years or so towards isolationism, right? America is its own thing and and we don't need to work with other countries on on, you know, matters of trade or what have you? That extends to our universities and the more that universities are are sort of tacitly endorsing this idea that we speak English here and only English here, that's only pushing America and American students further into this isolationist sense of, like, you know, like, cool, you've got your stem degree, but can you ever go work in France? No, can you ever go work in Mexico? No, you can work in the United States and that is it. And I think that to some people that might sound like a good thing, but I think that that is incredibly incredibly restrictive of someone who has had the opportunity to go abroad and do things abroad.road, you know, I'm thinking about what you're doing and what you're studying. and currently in Quebec is an example, there are measures to not allow students to come to Quebec or to limit the number of students who are not from Quebec to go to the universities there because there is in the view of Quebec, a crisis in education, stemming from the use of language, and quite often, the question of language and the question of who speaks French, why are they speaking French, is hotly debated in the universities there, including McGill, which, after hearing that this was happening as an Anglophone institution, really moved away from its French programs. so we we see that this is something the isolationism not only from the United States, but the isolationism, even from Francophhone areas of Francophone, particularly North American Francophone communities, this question of why are we speaking the language we are? Why are we studying the things that we are? How can we communicate? It's becoming more and more limited, at least in the academic sense. And so if we think about the purpose of another language, say, for example, for somebody who's interested in law, what in your view is the purpose? I mean, obviously, we know that law in itself has a lot of legal French, right? You know, there's there's tons of legal French, and for those listeners who maybe are not as familiar with with the field of law, many terms come from French, many terms are used from the French language from the French tradition. In your view, just in general as someone who is on the road to becoming one of the next uh people to to come out of Harvard Law School with a degree to put yourself on the ground to start your career in the field of law, what does language do for you there? a very clear answer for that had the coolest experience of my life this summer when the law firm that I'm joining in the fall of next year sent me to work in their office in Paris. For for those of you who have been there, their office in Paris is in Place Vendome, which is a gorgeous location, but beyond that I was working in French on French cases, like the the the unique opportunity to go abroad and to work in my firm on behalf of American international clients, what have you from a French language perspective is I've never done anything as cool as that. I was there for two weeks and my entire goal now is to join the Paris office. It's gonna take some jumping through hoops, but they were recruiting me to come and do that by the time that I left. The opportunity to be able to go and represent, you know, the firm that you work for as this is specifically as a lawyer, but to represent the firm that you work for as an American who is functionally fluent in French and able to assist on French matters is is unparalleled. That is the coolest thing I've ever done in something that I really hope that I'm able to to do again in the future. There are enormous opportunities for people who want to who want to work internationally with an illegal field. In fact, I joke around now at the end of my personal statement, I told my law school, I told Harvard law school, and all the law school I was applying to, that I wanted to practice international law when I graduated. I then started my first year of law school and realized that international law is largely fake. It's at least not very enforceable and it usually comes down to, you know, some treaties that not all countries the US, uh often, uh acknowledge or or respect or what have you. So like the the concept of international law is maybe not a thing, but working in law internationally is very much a thing. And so when I when I when I got my job at the firm that I'm going to be joining and and realized the extent to which I can work internationally, while I will not be practicing international law itself, I will be representing companies and an entities that have stake in international affairs, and I think that those are that's an important distinction to a lawyer, but to someone who's considering a career where they want to use a language that's not a very important distinction, you get to do, I think, what most people are thinking of when they're when they're considering what it would mean to practice whatever career their practicing internationally. And I think, you know, with the I the reach that the French language has or other languages in general, of course, is as I mentioned, in certain language here, that really can help not only build bridges between the United States and elsewhere, but also build internal bridges between yourself and the world. And I think maybe as a final point of our discussion today, which I've appreciated so much and I'm sure that our listeners are having a lot of a great time listening to you, just share these experiences. I think the last question that I have for you today is just thinking about when you're studying the language and when you're thinking about that future, right? The hereness of the language, the North American variant, right? This is the North American Francophone podcast. What would your hope be for non-F French speakers, for people who don't speak French? What is your hope for them? How do you want the future for Francoo communities here in North America? What would you want their visibility to be in the English language? In the English language, I have okay, I have two answers. I'm going to I'm going to answer it in the English language se separately. My first the two things that come to mind when it comes to people who are interested in French, who are not originally French speakers, who are in the United States or in Canada or North America, or in the Americas generally is one keep going. I think that you it's easy to get discouraged. Sometimes there's a lot of factors that will discourage you. I'll share a personal anecdote here. When I first went to France and was studying abroad, it was shortly after the 2016 election and there was a lot of sentiment abroad that, you know, all of America stood for what happened in that election. And so when I was when I was in in France, a lot of people would come up to me and as soon as they realized I was American, um would ask me a lot of questions about that and and for multiple reasons I didn't really want to talk about it. And so what that resulted in was me trying to hide my accent. I tried desperately to to get the most French accent I possibly could to imitate exactly the way the French people speak, and it was the biggest compliment in the world to me when I would ask people where they think I'm from, and they would not say the United States. I would get excited when people say thought I was from Germany or that they thought I was French occasionally that would happen and and that was the biggest compliment of all. But really like, just because you don't pronounce a French word exactly the same way as someone who grew up in Paris would pronounce the French word, or because you feel like your French isn't as perfect as it could be, the fact that you are taking are you taking the initiative and making the effort to learn another language, you should celebrate that, and your accent is incredibly important. So that's the first thing that I would say to anybody who is sort of learning French from a non-native speaking perspective or someone who learned native French, but has an accent that is non-raditional to, you know, the average Parisian. as far as what was was the other part of your question about English in visibility of the phrophon at least when we talk about French speakers in the English language, I find that oftentimes that there is really a gap in the knowledge, even here in North America, obviously, if we say Canada, or if we say Quebec, many people will say,A yeah, speak French up there. But then, you know, even I was I've been I've talked to students for probably ten years now and every time I ask, well, what's the capital of Canada? I get either Blank stare or Ontario or Toronto, right? the answers are incorrect or the question of well, you know, what do you know about Quebec? uh Maple syrup, hockey, right? So a lot of it is is sort of reduced and and really not as visible as it could be, or even in the United States, you know, saying Louisiana, a lot of people are familiar with the historical implications of, you know, the French language in Louisiana, but when you say that at one point, there were a million French speakers in Louisiana and this is a fairly recent statistic in the mid 20th century. And now that's been reduced to about three percent in the state, that 3 percent still exists there, right? And and, you know, people who speak French or who have some connection to the Fancau Figil, they realize this, but maybe not everybody outside of, I would say, the bubble of our community. So I think, you know, my question really goes back to the fact that you as a future, certainly public facing person who is working in the legal field, when you think about the visibility or maybe the rights of those communities to exist outside of their language or the conversations that you'd like to see emerge between the French speaking language here in North America and communities who really don't speak French in in the United States, Canada, Mexico, et cetera, What would you like to see moving forward? I mean, what could you in you could what what could you imagine for these communities and how could you see these communities really transforming their perspective in the English language? Yeah, I think so for me coming into specifically this class about North American Francrophone culture and and language, um like I didn't realize how much of a silent. I'm gonna say silent, though it's probably not silent population there is in the United States, particularly that is Francophone um and grew up speaking French as a native or a second language. um so so one thing that I think that it one thing that I think is sort of relevant here and maybe making this more of a problem, is actually the fact that in the United States, and this is the only context in which I'll say this, and I hope this is never taken out of context. But the fact that we are a free country where we don't have suppression of I mean, we we have had suppression of language, but no one today is going to say, no, you can't learn French, you can't speak French. Not on a not on a governmental level. But I think that doing that as well can also engender kind of a lax perspective about languages that might disappear or that are that are taking a second second shrift to English, right? Like no one is coming after out loud French. At this point, you know, 1916 to 1958 in Louisiana, it was outlawed.m right. No one, no like no political figure, no one is outright saying, we need to speak less French in the United States. And I think that we as a society tend to focus on instances where there are suppression of rights rather than ignoring of those rights or celebration of those rights. And so with with French, I think that for for anyone who is listening to this, who is maybe in my situation or or or or is is actively starting to learn French or is just becoming interested in French culture, educate yourself about just how many people there are here who, if they don't speak French, their parents did or their parents do, or their, you know, they may be lost some of it, but don't have a strong incentive to continue learning it, and think about how impactful that can be to a language disappearing over generations, and and and and really think I think long and hard about the ways that you can you can make an impact there. And sometimes all that means is find the other people in your community who also enjoy French or enjoy French culture and find some way to celebrate that with them, find ways to plug in in that community and make it stronger. So I've really appreciated talking with you today and uh, Mike, I know that you're going to be doing great things just in general, once you do have the degree in hand. So thank you very much for sharing. This is once again the North American Francophone podcast. If you have a topic of conversation that you'd like to share with me, you know that you can always go to the Francophone.com, submit a contact form and I'll be happy to exchange with you further. On that note, Merci! and I hope to see you in the halls of the Francophonie soon working your way to making even more connections with the French language.